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Uwe Siemon-Netto

  • Concordia Seminary
    801 Seminary Place
    St. Louis, MO 63105
    314.505.7237 email

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Pete

KFUO-FM is a SECULAR, not a Christian station, to the shame of LCMS. Mr Siemon-Netto's depiction of music as a tool of God's Spirit are correct, but it doesn't match the goals of the LCMS in operating the FM classical station. For more detail, please check out Rev Todd Wilken's podcast at http://www.issuesetc.org/podcast/Openmics4.mp3

Boaz

KFUO is a tragedy. The greatest music ever written is Lutheran, and a confessional Lutheran synod owns a classical music station that broadcasts through the internet over the world. Yet, you'd never know the station was Lutheran by listening to it.

They could have played Bach's cantata for the week every day with the week's reading. They could have played Lutheran choirs singing great Lutheran sacred works. They could have played Matins, Vespers, and Compline each day at set times and spread the beauty of the Lutheran liturgy. They didn't do any of this.

If they aren't going to pursue their mission, shut them down. But, how much better would it have been to display the beauty of Lutheran music? What a wasted opportunity by our miserable bureaucrats.

Dr. Uwe Siemon-Netto

Pete, I read your above response to my blog. Although I am an admirer of Todd's, I simply disagree with him on this point. Perhaps it's true that atheists are running KFUO-FM. But the Holy Spirit transcends the LCMS' choice of staff. To claim that music ceases to be an implement of the Holy Spirit when presented by atheists would also blaspheme Holy Spirit. KFUO is not broadcasting "atheistic" music. It broadcasts good music -- and very often music proclaiming the Gospel. Trust me, I am listening to KFUO-FM all the time, and the LCMS is not selling it because of the station's atheistic management but because the LCMS has squandered piles of money and is intent on squandering more. This is what I find so reprehensible: The leadership of this church body is selling a tool of the Holy Spirit in order to make up for its own incompetence.

Uwe

The Rev. Larry A Peters

Whether or not the people running the station are folks we would want speaking on Issues, etc, it is the MUSIC that is the point of all of this.

Isn't there a story about a Pope who complained that more people because Lutheran through Bach than any other Lutheran preacher?

I am shocked -- and not in the least by how quickly whatever is gained will be gone with nothing to show for it.

The LCMS will never have another FM license. Would you advocate selling part of the church property just because it was not essential at this moment and the bills were piling up? This would be a sale of a future -- and for now it is literally costing nothing to hold on to this great asset...

uwesiemon

Dear Pastor, thanks for your insightful comment. I have little to add except to say that the LCMS is about to squander a potentially hugely powerful voice for mission. I can't remember who that Pope was, though I remember having heard this story before. Even Popes can be right and LCMS bureaucrats wrong -- to wit this blunder.

Uwe Siemon-Netto

Tony Kull

Greetings from Altamont, IL
I have listened to both KFUO's and I make no preference to which one is better. I like classical music. I have played it on air during my graduate school days, recorded it live and it is an enduring format.

Selling CLASSIC 99, KFUO would be an outrage to me.

I am an radio engineer, not as active as I once was, but I do belong to St.Louis chapter 55 of the Society of Broadcast Engineers. What the LCMS does need to do, and there are engineers out there like me, the church BUY A TELEVISION STATION, and uplink programming to make THE LUTHERAN CHANNEL or Concordia Channel on cable TV. Remember, our catholic brethern have EWTN, the global catholic channel. Garantee to reach the ENTIRE WORLD and spreading the GOSPEL.

KFUO KEEPING FAITH UPWARD ONWARD.
TONY KULL
618 483-5522 217 343-9532

Richard

For the best in classical music--and even with a somewhat "Christian" emphasis, I recommend you listen on the internet to some of the European stations--Bayern Vier Klassik is excellent, as is Radio Stephansdom. The Dutch even have a 24 radio of religious music, found here at www.ikonrtv.nl/musica/webplayer/

Cantor Phillip Magness

My dear Uwe, whom I have admired much over the years,

Music is not a means of grace. And I doubt Luther intended that sentence to be used outside of context to suggest such a thing. I'm surprized you would make such a case: it is inherently un-Lutheran.

Yes, music is a TOOL of the Holy Spirit - but only when it is joined to His Word. One can expand this even to say that purely instrumental music accompanying the adminsitration of the Sacraments is also used by the Holy Spirit to call, gather, and enlighten, but it is simply not correct to assert that music-as-music is a means by which the Holy Spirit does His work. At best all music alone can do is soothe a deranged Saul. It does not enlighten with God's gifts.

Luther elsewhere described music as a "handmaiden" of the Gospel, "second only to theology" in its usefulness. This is its correct use in the Church: to support and magnify the Word of God. Apart from that it has no power.

uwesiemon

I did not say that music was a means of grace. I said, with Luther, that it was a tool (or implement) of the Holy Spirit. Why should "music as music" not also serve as tool of the Holy Spirit if He chooses it as His implement to prepare ears for the Word? Who are we to set God methodological limits? I mentioned the Japanese example and Arthur Peacocke's remark about The Art of the Fugue. Come on, my faithful Lutheran brethren,let's cut the Paraclete some Wittenberg slack.

Dr. Uwe Siemon-Netto

Cantor Phillip Magness

The idea that music "prepares ears" for the Word is the worship theology of American Evangelicalism. That's why they "front load" the music in "contemporary worship". I've been to their seminars, read their books, and know they teach this: music "clears the debris" of life away and "prepares the heart" so that then the Word can "do its work". This is music-as-handmaiden-of-the-Holy-Spirit.

The Lutheran view is that music is handmaiden of the Gospel. It serves not so much the Third Person of the Trinity, but the Second. This is why music is integral to our proclamation of the Word in the Divine Service. Sure, the Spirit works through the Word and so is present. So in that sense one can say music is a "tool of the Spirit". The Paraclete uses music in His calling, gathering, and enlightening through the Word. But music does not spiritually enlighten in and of itself. I'd like to think music would be so powerful - after all, I'm a professional musician! - but I can see music alone being the Spirit's "tool" only inasmuch as a good steak might also be used by God.

But that doesn't mean the synod should have a butcher shop now, does it?

So, yes, God can do what He wills. I'm not setting a methodological limit on what He might do. But God Himself has chosen hidden and humble means for doing His work, and we should not make claims for Him that He Himself does not make.

By the way, the Japanese example is inspiring, but the music itself only inspired their INTEREST. The Holy Spirit then worked through the actual Gospel contained therein. This doesn't happen at KFUO-FM, and, sadly, neither does such unveiling of the Gospel through great music happen in but a few of our congregations.

Kind Regards, in Christ,

Phillip

Quinn

"He chooses it as His implement to prepare ears for the Word?"

This is completely un-Scriptural, anti-Confesional, and devoid of an undrstanding of the Church Fathers. It is semi-Pelagian in teh worst way. Considering the misuse of the Luther quotes, the anecdotal evidence being taken over the clear Word and the emotionally charged argument contained herein, I would have thought that this would have been written by a Neo-Evangelical or something to that effect.

Considering the character and stature of the author, I am just floored by this and other comments.

I am sorry, sir, with all due respect, you have erred and compounded this error with painting orthodox Lutheran doctrine with the brush of a "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."

I am very sad.

uwesiemon

Well, Phillip, we can argue this till the cows come home. So when I listen to the Art of the Fugue while praying am I an evangelical? BTW, our main man Luther did not say music "soothed" the deranged Paul. He said, "Durch die Musik wurde der böse Geist Sauls vertrieben ..." (through music Saul's evil spirit was driven away ...). So now who was at work here?

I find the idea of an LCMS-owned butcher shop quite appealing, actually, certainly more useful than an excessive bureaucracy.

By the way, music or butcher shop: when given to the neighbor as an act of love, both render the highest possible service to God in the left-hand kingdom, according to the Lutheran doctrine of vocation.

And the Church is not just a property of the right-hand kingdom but a corporate citizen of the left-hand kingdom as well.

Uwe Siemon-Netto

uwesiemon

In response to Quinn:

Ooops, must I now consider myself excommunicated? Please tell the elders of my congregation, Mount Olivet in Washington, DC. What's the world coming to with all these heretics all over the Synod? I find that I am burning already. To think that I had attributed my unpleasant temperature to a fever all weekend! Imagine the insult to the Holy Spirit to suggest that without consulting the Book of Concord He might use music as a drill with which to remove the wax from people's ears! (BTW, I was actually speaking metaphorically, which might also be considered heretical behavior).

It's a good job Luther thought larger than some Lutherans.

Uwe Siemon-Netto

Quinn

I will be happy to be shown my error, good Doctor. No matter how "small" I think.

BTW, I should point out that I love and respect my Christian brother, the good Doctor. God Bless him for the work that He has done, particularly with his dissertation, and the service he has given the synod since. Thank you very much, sir.

uwesiemon

Thank you. You and I will be shown our errors in the Hereafter.

Bless you,

USN

Phillip Magness

Dear Uwe,

Glad you like the butcher shop! I will just disagree with you that we have $ in LCMS to spend on this kind of left-hand kingdom work. Let our members do that in their vocations - the synod needs to train pastors, support missions, and provide educational materials for the Church.

That said, my position is not categorially opposed to selling KFUO-FM. My participation in this thread is in response to your claims that a classical music radio station is a "tool of the Holy Spirit."

As far as praying while listening to absolute music, that has no bearing on whether or not you are an "Evangelcial". But, since you are in a playful mood, let me indulge your point and say this:

I presume that as a Lutheran you would be praying according to God's Word. Since the music is playing simultaneously with that, I can see the music thereby being used as an aid, with the Spirit's help, in your meditations. That would make you a true Evangelical - i.e. Lutheran.

The American Evangelical/Radical Reformed approach would be for you to first listen to the music, that it might "clear away debris", but then turn it off once you are ready to "enter into God's presence" and then pray "sincerely" w/o distraction.

Of course, many AE's today drink deeply of Pentecostalism, which would let the music keep rippin' and kickin' as an aid to an ecstatic experience, but I don't think anyone here is making the charismatic argument.

Regarding Saul, yes, Scripture teaches us that the evil spirit departed from him whenever David played his lyre for him during the days David was in Saul's service. Luther extolled how evil spirits flee from (good) music. But it doesn't follow that the Holy Spirit therefore is at work whenever good music is played.

I worked for years in the kingdom of the left and know all too well from firsthand experience how utterly depraved many great classical and jazz musicians are. Their music can't save them. Only the Gospel can!

Quinn

Respectfully,

That is not quite a response to the assertions that have been forwarded, (quite learnedly by Cantor Philliip), nor were the ad hominem [abusive] comments directly preceding your last post.

I am desirous of further dialogue on this issue. I stand by my first badly misspelled assertions. With respect, sir, please explain.

uwesiemon

Ad hominem (meaning argument against the man)? Abusive? Where? I wish I could see a way to continue this conversation but I can't. I am working two jobs, and if I can't get some light relief being tongue-in-cheek why exhaust myself? So by all means think of me as an arrogant and horrible heretic who has learned from Luther only to be polemical.

Uwe

Carol

It seems that selling or not selling a radio station may be more a matter for human reason (and that reason is a gift of God of course) than a spiritual issue. However, I have questions about artistic gifts. In Exodus 35, a man is “filled with the Spirit of God, with ability…with all craftsmanship, to devise artistic designs…” for work on the tabernacle. In 1 Chronicles 25, David sets apart men “who should prophesy with lyres, with harps, and with cymbals.” Those musical and artistic gifts are set apart for sacred purposes. But are all such gifts God-given, even if the results are not expressly used for worship? Are those “First Article” gifts? The psalms call on all sorts of things and people to praise the Lord -- sun, moon, cattle, birds, kings, all peoples, “everything that breathes.” Even if it is not conveying the Word, does music, even secular music, praise God?

Carol

uwesiemon

Now just as I had ended this conversation in a last-ditch effort to escape the Wittenberg stake, I received an email from a friend on the West Coast showing that the Holy Spirit had once again failed to consult the Book of Concord before reaching the soul of a nonbeliever with the help of the Goldberg Variations. I will give you the relevant passage from this email leaving out the convert's identity. But I might reveal it if forced by a secular court where, I am told, some Lutherans nowadays settle their differences in an idiosyncratic way of interpreting Scripture.

So here is the excerpt:

"Let me close with a wonderful happening that has me meditating every day on the goodness of God. My musician son (has a) ... son.... He was baptized but has never become part of our very church-involved, deeply religious family. Last year (my son), who is a Bach scholar, gave (his son) a CD of the Goldberg Variations, even though (he), now sixteen, had never shown any interest in Bach or the piano. Several months later, (he) sat down at (his father's) piano and played two of the Variations perfectly; he had learned them by ear. (My grandson) began studying with (my son), practices Bach for hours each day, is now also studying pipe organ and- the very best news- shows a deep interest in Lutheranism. I meet him at our church, where he practices on the organ three times a week, we have a little lunch together, discuss religion and music and then I listen to him practice. My prayers are being answered!"

Tsk, tsk! That Holy Spirit! He really does blow as He wills, even with the help of Goldberg. Go figure...

Uwe Siemon-Netto

Kit Born

I had a very real encounter with the Gospel because of JS Bach!

I was a freshman at Valpo. In the Kantorei, we sang the 4th Motet, "Jesu, Meine Freude." This piece uses the verses of a hymn interspersed with the texts from Romans 7 and 8. Hearing and singing, "Es ist nun nicht..." (So there is now no condemnation unto them which are in Jesus Christ.)

I came to understand the scripture for the first time in a very long time, that God really loved me, no matter what I had done, simply because of Jesus Christ. I had never apprehended this before. I was 17 years old and struggling with the weight of my own sin and guilt before a just God. Thus, God used this music mixed with scripture to ignite faith. The Holy Spirit can use whatever He wishes to increase our faith. Scripture is still scripture; set to music or not.

uwesiemon

Right, Kit!

Uwe

Mark S

Acts 9:3ff: Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

Galatians 1:11ff: I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Wow. Who am I to limit the powers of the Almighty God, and what tools he uses to bring people to the Gospel? If He beamed down upon Saul on the Road to Damascas and blinded him, I'm pretty sure it's small play to speak to people through music. If I don't believe in this power, what use is it being a Christian?

But for those of more practical mindset, I believe KFUO also broadcasts a Lutheran church service every Sunday morning and on holidays. What a beautiful mission radio is, where people can be visited in their homes in a hundred square mile area by the Gospel. And who knows, maybe some secular music lovers might accidentally turn it on during a service and listen? Aren't we, as Christians commanded to live in the world (but not be of it)? It seems like selling this station is more of a retreat from that than anything else. Never mind the Second Greatest Commandment to love our neighbors. What love is it to fire people who have been an integral part of the St Louis Community, supporting local musicians, our Symphony and its employees? What love is it to shutdown a station that already serves and ministers to so many people in so many different ways --maybe not in the same way the AM station does, but that's why there's two!

A word of caution to those who judge the "utterly depraved". From Luke 6: “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. “If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. “If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. “But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. “Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned."


Rev. Eric Brown

Just a few quick comments.

1. The Word is a Means of Grace.
2. The love and kindness that we show towards others points people towards the Means of Grace.
3. "Music" can be either.

If music is lyrical, it can indeed be a literal means of grace - our hymns proclaim the Word.

If music is not lyrical, but demonstrates emotion which makes a connection, it can be used to point folks to the Word - the same way as me showing kindness and love to my neighbor is not preaching the Gospel itself, but can pique interest.

I think a distinction needs to be made between the two, while not diminishing the importance of either. Showing love is not showing the Gospel, but it may provide an opportunity to speak the Gospel down the road.

In so far as the sale of the classical music station curtails the playing of lyrical Christian Hymnody it curtails the Gospel (and given the lack of people who get into Latin, not so much) directly.

In so far as the sale of the classical music station curtails the playing of solid Christian composers it shows a lack of care to neighbor and hinder the eventual proclamation of the Gospel.

It is sad that the station is being sold. . . but I think we also should admit that it was being used primarily as merely a general classical music station - not as a specific tool of promoting the Gospel. If we were losing 28 hours a week of solid hymnody and many more of classical music from the pen of Christian composers (perhaps even with historical-religious background given) - then this would be a terrible blow.

Now - is there some loss here - yes - but there will be other people to run classical music - God can use that how He will. But this isn't a shattering blow to the Gospel. It is a sadness of the scale of the closing of a small Christian-run food bank, not the closing of a cathedral.

stlsemstudent

At one point when I was a teenager I was terrified that I had perhaps sinned against the Holy Spirit. I can't remember a more comforting word than what I heard from my father confessor. To even suggest that selling a station that rarely (if ever) clearly proclaims the word of God in anything other than a foreign language is aweful. You should repent.

I would also like to know what makes a radio station "Christian." Really, if I didn't know better I would think that you had an ecclesiology more akin to Johann Wichern than to that of the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions. Didn't the notion of a Volkskirche buttress the DEK?

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